You know, the antidote to a crowd mentality is *not* stupidity. You might object to certain bloggers gathering in force to make a point, but your arguments for why that is wrong are illogical.
What exactly is your objection here? That some do not like high prices and are choosing their medium (the online space) to discuss that? That they are herding together to do so? Do you think we have an unfair advantage? Because I do not see radio interviews lining up so that our voices can be heard.
If you don't like the heat, get out of the kitchen. If you think you can use twitter to some twisted, manipulative advantage you have no right to be shocked when it backfires on you. Does that make those who dare to speak up, voice their opinion and shout loud "juvenile"? Give me a break.
And if you think the South African Twitter community is one big happy family, and that somehow should coerce us into "kind" behavious, then you have a lot to learn about Twitter, South Africa and families in general.
Luckily, your argument that just because we paid high prices for our Macs we should sit down and shut up pretty much sums up you up. So I'm going to try to not be too bothered by this post, and will simply write you off as the black sheep of the family.
Justin Hartman
· 5 months ago
Regator is actually an American/Global aggregator run by Australians. Honestly not sure what the Regator issue has to do with this... *sigh*...
Wogan
· 5 months ago
What, you haven't written me off already? Lol - and here I thought I was doing everything in my power :)
My argument is this (in summary): Core is screwing up. Spaandonk screwed up. But SA screwed up too, and possibly in a worse way than the last 2 put together - and that's what I'm getting at.
And you're right - the antidote to crowd mentality isn't stupidity - it's a voice for the opposite side of the fence. Which is where I place myself, in the hopes that people will realise there are often more than 1 sides to a story.
My objection was to the inflated response, nothing more. I've learned (the hard way) that a heated debate online sticks - much more permanently than you'd think. A few months from now, several companies might start looking at investing in SM - and this exact debacle (and the way we handled it) will stand as counterproof.
Note that I say "we". Not once (until now) have I voiced anything for or against Core. I don't even own anything Apple. But I'm part of this community too, and I'm trying to bring a balance here. I wasn't really in the kitchen to begin with.
As for the unfair advantage (and the "juvenile" bit), it had nothing to do with publicity. Where superior SEO could have been used to draw attention to the fact that Core's pricing and service is outrageous (possibly spur Apple Intl. to action), it instead draws attention to the director himself - and that, in my opinion, is about as naive as it gets.
Nothing will change by trying to tear the man's public image down - all it results in is us looking like a bunch of online hooligans, and that will stick.
And yes, I do think the SA Twitter community is one big family. It's mostly happy, it has it's down days, and it's occasionally dysfunctional - I've been on all sides of the fence to know that well enough, and I have enough experience with my own dysfunctional family to tell what's what.
I never said that was a bad thing. I just said it gets taken too far.
And if it only took one argument to sum me up, I'm happy for you - it'll save you from a lot of confusion ;)
~ Wogan
Wogan
· 5 months ago
@Justin Inflated response. Remember how everyone got into an ill-informed huff over what turned out to be an honest mishap? That's the groupthink effect I believe might have played a part in the Core debacle, since it's obvious we haven't changed much since then.
No offense meant at Afrigator ;)
Justin Hartman
· 5 months ago
@Wogan - yeah no worries on my part. TBH though I don't think companies should veer away from SM as a result of this, they should embrace it. The problem is (and I think we all agree) RJ over-reacted to the situation. If SM was embraced by the Core in a different way then this whole situation could have been avoided. For example, look at Jayx's well thought out and written post here http://designsignature.co.za/blog/?p=268
If Core had come up with that - in a constructive way - we wouldn't be sitting where we are right now. The point is, conversation is happening all the time. Companies can't afford to avoid the issue - they have to embrace it!
Wogan
· 5 months ago
Justin, I agree 100% - companies can and should engage with their audiences, and I also agree - this Core thing shouldn't put them off. The reality, though, is that big business in SA is a closer-knit community than most realize, and with someone like Spaandonk singing the failures of Twitter, it might cause a few CEOs to think twice - and we all know just how politically constrained big business can get.
And I agree (like I said in the post), Spaandonk took the entirely wrong angle, and he got (justifiably) burned for it. The problem here is that we've had an opportunity to show just how the local SM sphere reacts to the corporate world on touchy issues - and we ended up looking like a bunch of cavemen with clubs.
Personally, I'd rather have had a rational debate, using (and thanks for!) JayX's numbers, trying to reach an understanding as far as pricing is concerned, and maybe raising concerns about customer experience. I think Core (and the rest of the lurking 'net) would have liked that much more than the flame war we're turning it into.
Because obviously, in South Africa, you can't really engage with your audience. That's the message that's being sent out here, whether or not Spaandonk's in the wrong.
SaulK
· 5 months ago
It really upsets me that this has become a flame war as it was never the case. I do regret starting a site with such an aggressive name as frankly it makes us come across as highly aggressive (which is really not the case). All we want is an explanation and possibly a bit of honesty. That said, I'm thinking of changing the name of the blog and removing any Core hate and keeping only the researched facts and figured.
Wogan
· 5 months ago
Hey Saul, thanks for checking in. Having gone through all of the content there, I agree - there's more to be gained by not trying to look like a pitchfork ;) Looking forward to some positivity!
Tim Gregory
· 5 months ago
I think the blogs with Pagerank had every right to link this incident to RJ's name after he decided he was going to 'take on the bloggers and twitterers on their own terms', and taunted the web community and his customers publicly on Twitter. Why did it have to be a sarcastic 'clever' campaign? Why not speak simply, clearly, and sincerely to your customers? I'm a Mac user, but been fortunate enough to always buy my Macs while living or traveling abroad. Buying at South African prices makes little sense to me, and customers have a right to vote with their wallets and make their displeasure known. FWIW, I put together a little piece on RJ's blunder and the damage to his personal brand at my Tim Gregory blog.
Wogan
· 5 months ago
Tim, you're right - they did have every right to do what they did. But was that the best thing to do? How, in the end, did it make the South African online community look any more mature, or forgiving, or understanding?
Anybody can mouth off at bad service and high prices. That doesn't make you special, and it certainly doesn't help solve the problem. If all we're going to do is exchange hot air, what's the point of social media, anyway?
I've said it - Spaandonk took the wrong approach, but how many of us have taken wrong approaches before? I know I did - I fouled up tremendously during my first few months, but I was forgiven, and life went on. Is it really too much to ask of us, to offer the same to Spaandonk, who was getting into Twitter for the first time, trying to open a dialog in a medium we used?
Evidently not. Even though the numbers are actually in our favour - check the designsignature.co.za post that Justin links to above. Was a real eye-opener for me too.
Thanks for the comment - every bit of discussion brings us that much closer to a solution :)
All Comments
You know, the antidote to a crowd mentality is *not* stupidity. You might object to certain bloggers gathering in force to make a point, but your arguments for why that is wrong are illogical.
What exactly is your objection here? That some do not like high prices and are choosing their medium (the online space) to discuss that? That they are herding together to do so? Do you think we have an unfair advantage? Because I do not see radio interviews lining up so that our voices can be heard.
If you don't like the heat, get out of the kitchen. If you think you can use twitter to some twisted, manipulative advantage you have no right to be shocked when it backfires on you. Does that make those who dare to speak up, voice their opinion and shout loud "juvenile"? Give me a break.
And if you think the South African Twitter community is one big happy family, and that somehow should coerce us into "kind" behavious, then you have a lot to learn about Twitter, South Africa and families in general.
Luckily, your argument that just because we paid high prices for our Macs we should sit down and shut up pretty much sums up you up. So I'm going to try to not be too bothered by this post, and will simply write you off as the black sheep of the family.
My argument is this (in summary): Core is screwing up. Spaandonk screwed up. But SA screwed up too, and possibly in a worse way than the last 2 put together - and that's what I'm getting at.
And you're right - the antidote to crowd mentality isn't stupidity - it's a voice for the opposite side of the fence. Which is where I place myself, in the hopes that people will realise there are often more than 1 sides to a story.
My objection was to the inflated response, nothing more. I've learned (the hard way) that a heated debate online sticks - much more permanently than you'd think. A few months from now, several companies might start looking at investing in SM - and this exact debacle (and the way we handled it) will stand as counterproof.
Note that I say "we". Not once (until now) have I voiced anything for or against Core. I don't even own anything Apple. But I'm part of this community too, and I'm trying to bring a balance here. I wasn't really in the kitchen to begin with.
As for the unfair advantage (and the "juvenile" bit), it had nothing to do with publicity. Where superior SEO could have been used to draw attention to the fact that Core's pricing and service is outrageous (possibly spur Apple Intl. to action), it instead draws attention to the director himself - and that, in my opinion, is about as naive as it gets.
Nothing will change by trying to tear the man's public image down - all it results in is us looking like a bunch of online hooligans, and that will stick.
And yes, I do think the SA Twitter community is one big family. It's mostly happy, it has it's down days, and it's occasionally dysfunctional - I've been on all sides of the fence to know that well enough, and I have enough experience with my own dysfunctional family to tell what's what.
I never said that was a bad thing. I just said it gets taken too far.
And if it only took one argument to sum me up, I'm happy for you - it'll save you from a lot of confusion ;)
~ Wogan
No offense meant at Afrigator ;)
If Core had come up with that - in a constructive way - we wouldn't be sitting where we are right now. The point is, conversation is happening all the time. Companies can't afford to avoid the issue - they have to embrace it!
And I agree (like I said in the post), Spaandonk took the entirely wrong angle, and he got (justifiably) burned for it. The problem here is that we've had an opportunity to show just how the local SM sphere reacts to the corporate world on touchy issues - and we ended up looking like a bunch of cavemen with clubs.
Personally, I'd rather have had a rational debate, using (and thanks for!) JayX's numbers, trying to reach an understanding as far as pricing is concerned, and maybe raising concerns about customer experience. I think Core (and the rest of the lurking 'net) would have liked that much more than the flame war we're turning it into.
Because obviously, in South Africa, you can't really engage with your audience. That's the message that's being sent out here, whether or not Spaandonk's in the wrong.
Anybody can mouth off at bad service and high prices. That doesn't make you special, and it certainly doesn't help solve the problem. If all we're going to do is exchange hot air, what's the point of social media, anyway?
I've said it - Spaandonk took the wrong approach, but how many of us have taken wrong approaches before? I know I did - I fouled up tremendously during my first few months, but I was forgiven, and life went on. Is it really too much to ask of us, to offer the same to Spaandonk, who was getting into Twitter for the first time, trying to open a dialog in a medium we used?
Evidently not. Even though the numbers are actually in our favour - check the designsignature.co.za post that Justin links to above. Was a real eye-opener for me too.
Thanks for the comment - every bit of discussion brings us that much closer to a solution :)